Durbin Questions Witnesses During Senate Judiciary Committee Hearing On Gun Conversion Devices That Are Amplifying The Gun Violence Epidemic

WASHINGTON – U.S. Senate Majority Whip Dick Durbin (D-IL), Chair of the Senate Judiciary Committee, today questioned witnesses during a Senate Judiciary Committee hearing entitled “How Bump Stocks and Other Conversion Devices are Amplifying the Gun Violence Epidemic.”  The hearing examined how firearm conversion devices like Glock switches, auto sears, bump stocks, and pistol braces make firearms more lethal and enable evasion of commonsense gun regulations.  In 2018, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (ATF) issued a rule with bipartisan support to regulate certain gun conversion devices.  However, the Supreme Court’s conservative supermajority struck down the rule this summer in a decision which was swiftly condemned.

Durbin began his questions by thanking Laura O’Donnell, a retired Chicago Police Lieutenant, for sharing her experience as a concert attendee at the Route 91 Harvest Music Festival in Las Vegas on October 1, 2017, the deadliest mass shooting in U.S. history, and detailing the trauma the event inflicted on those present.

“Thank you, not only for your testimony about that horrible day in your life, but for your service as a police officer in Chicago.  It is not an easy assignment.  I respect the fact that you did it forover 20 years,” Durbin said to Mrs. O’Donnell.

“Do you think most policemen that you served with in Chicago, or other places, would agree that bump stocks have no place being sold in the United States?” Durbin asked Mrs. O’Donnell.

Mrs. O’Donnell replied that she believes that most police officers would agree that bump stocks should not be on the market in the United States.

Durbin then questioned minority witness Ryan Cleckner, attorney at FFLSafe in Flagstaff, Arizona, about his view on the legality of owning gun conversion devices.

“[Mr. Cleckner] When we think of the purpose of the Second Amendment for self-defense, sport, and hunting, is there a circumstance that you can think of in the ordinary course of life where you need to have that capacity of a firearm?” Durbin asked.

Mr. Cleckner responded that the Second Amendment was written shortly after overthrowing a tyrannical government, and that while bump stocks have little application for hunting or self-defense, banning conversion devices would not prevent criminals from using them in a mass shooting.

“Let’s stick with your logic,” Durbin replied.  “What’s the point of banning machine guns?”

Mr. Cleckner said that machine guns are legal for a small portion of people to possess, but that the weapons are extremely regulated.

“Is that a violation of constitutional rights to regulate that firearm?” Durbin asked.

In response to Mr. Cleckner’s argument that, in his view, most gun laws infringe on Second Amendment rights, Durbin replied, “That’s where we’re going to part company.  I think most people would agree, even firearm owners in my own family, that reasonable regulation is not too much to ask if it means saving the lives of innocent people.”

Durbin then asked Ms. Esther Sanchez-Gomez, Litigation Director at the Giffords Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence, about whether conversion devices will continue to play a role in mass shootings in America. 

“Ms. Sanchez-Gomez, when it comes to the incidence of mass shootings and the proliferation of these devices, what do you see lies ahead?” Durbin asked.

Ms. Sanchez-Gomez explained that regulation is critical, advocating for the regulation of machine guns and tools that could convert guns into weapons resembling machine guns, as the gun industry evolves.  She further emphasized that this regulation does not impede on the Constitution.

Durbin recalled the horrific mass shooting at a Highland Park, Illinois, Fourth of July parade in 2022 that killed seven people, and then asked Ms. Sanchez-Gomez her view on the purpose of the Second Amendment.

“I think of the situation just a few years ago in Highland Park, Illinois, on the Fourth of July, when people were assembled for a Fourth of July parade.  There were many members of law enforcement who were there watching the scene and even marching in the parade.  A lone shooter got on the roof of a building and fired off, I believe, 83 rounds in 60 seconds, killing seven people and injuring dozens of others.  It was a young man… and his father decided that a good thing for him to do was to buy this type of assault weapon and practice at a shooting range.  It prepared him for that awful day which changed lives in every direction.  I look at that and think, what is the purpose of his ownership of that gun?” Durbin said. 

“Is it to stop tyranny?  According to Mr. Cleckner, that’s one of the elements that went into the Founding Fathers’ calculation of the Second Amendment.  What do you think about that?” Durbin asked Ms. Sanchez-Gomez.

Ms. Sanchez-Gomez responded that the Supreme Court has clearly ruled that military-style weapons are not protected under the Second Amendment. 

Durbin concluded his questions by asking Professor Jens Ludwig, Edwin A. and Betty L. Bergman Distinguished Service Professor at the University of Chicago, about his reaction to minority witness Zach Smith’s, Senior Legal Fellow at the Heritage Foundation, argument that mass shootings should be viewed as an issue of crime rather gun regulation.

Professor Ludwig explained that the availability of guns in the United States is responsible for making violent crime so deadly.  He further noted that evidence suggests that the widespread availability of gun conversion devices contributes to the lethality of crimes committed with a firearm.

Video of Durbin’s questions in Committee is available here.

Audio of Durbin’s questions in Committee is available here.

Footage of Durbin’s questions in Committee is available here for TV Stations.

Durbin has led efforts in Congress to combat gun violence. Durbin was a strong supporter of the Bipartisan Safer Communities Act (BSCA), which cracks down on straw purchasing, expands background checks for buyers under 21 years of age, takes steps to close the “boyfriend loophole,” supports state red flag laws, and offers billions in funding for counseling, mental health, and trauma support for victims of gun violence.

Durbin is also a staunch advocate for the Assault Weapons Ban and additional gun safety measures. Since BSCA was signed into law, Durbin held a full committee hearing on public safety and gun safety laws in a post-Bruen America; filed an amicus brief in opposition to legal challenges in U.S. v. Rahimi, in which the Supreme Court ultimately ruled to uphold a ban on firearm possession for domestic violence offenders; condemned the Supreme Court decision in Garland v. Cargill, which ruled a bump stock does not convert a rifle into a machine gun; and introduced legislation to curb firearms trafficking enabled by weak American gun laws, among other efforts.

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